My Mom is a Fob

Direct quote from my mother, "You eighteen! Why you not married yet? Is embarrassing!"

There are many days when I come home and theres some random man sitting on the couch with my mother as she tries to convince him to marry me. It's embarrassing.

My parents never said anything about not dating. So I've started dating at the age of 16. But There were only one or two boys that I've actually brought home to meet my parents. My dad never asks about my love life, my mom tries to know, but my grandma is by far the most not traditional when it comes to dating. She would always talk to me about boys, and she would always think she knows everything about every guy I bring into the house. She would automatically assume I'm dating every guy that I bring home, which makes me afraid to bring people home because she always stares them down and makes them feel a bit awkward. Well I understand that's her way of looking at the boys to tell which ones are good and bad for me, cause she can "tell" just by looking >.<
Anyway I don't ever speak to my parents about sex or dating. They don't mind me dating as long as I do my school work and according to my grandma, my boyfriend must be okay looking before I start with how nice they are to me. Isn't that weird? How many asian grandmas would actually say that? o.O
Now I'm 20 and I've been with my boyfriend for 3 months. :) This month on my birthday was our 3rd month, next month would be our 4th month, Valentine's Day, and Chinese New Yr on the same day. It's great and everything's working perfectly. I love him and my parents have already met him. His parents have already met me and we would always sleep over each other's houses. I don't know what to say but my family is not strict about dating at all, that is, for an asian family.

My fiance and I had planned to talk to my parents about our engagement during his visit, but through the combined wonders of our procrastination and my dad consistently going to sleep before 10 pm, we only managed to have a talk with my mom before I had to take him to the airport. When I got back from the airport, I heard from both my mom and my sister that my dad had some questions that he wanted to ask me. Later that night, I was sitting at my laptop when I heard my mom suggest to my dad that he should talk to me. He responded that I looked busy, to which I replied that I was just looking at web comics. There was silence, and not long afterward, he went to bed. This is a little awkward...

wow- a lot of interesting comments!

my mom knew i was dating before i did - she asked my sister if i was going out with anyone? and she asked me about my sister dating before we knew as well, it's kind of funny. i think they just kind of resigned to the idea that i had a bf in high school and they also came to like him a lot. his being white was not a problem but we're a family with few asian contacts.

now that i'm single sometimes my mom will go off on some obtuse advice like 'How To Avoid Attracting Bad Guys' and 'How To Not Have A One Night Stand'. and sometimes sweet advice like 'You Don't Have To Run After Guys, You'll Find The One'.

one thing that illustrates the discrepancy between their and my generation though: my mom lost her virginity after marriage in her mid thirties. ahem, too late for me! now i'm somewhat older, family friends keep telling me 'it's important to meet more Chinese people!'

i'll consider it. ;) good luck to you all

My dad never cared about my friends or whatever and my mother never thought I was capable of ever getting a boyfriend to be honest. She knows that I care about my grades more than dating so she's never given me any talks about relationships... we don't talk much in the first place anyway, if we do, it's usually about my insecurities about my future... career-wise, of course.

I would imagine though that my family has issues with dating during high school, but after that, I guess one would have to be careful. A relative had his first proper girlfriend after he left university at which point everyone expected him to be dating. He had hid his relationship for about a year before letting it slip accidentally. His girlfriend is Asian as well, but Asians are racist against Asians, and in this case, Chinese people are being racist against themselves (the girl was too "village"). Needless to say, his parents disapproved of this girlfriend, threatening to disown him if they'd ever decided to get married.

During that period of hiding my mother had attempted to introduce him to several girls (it is normal for people to get set up this way for the people around me) while she was under the impression that he was still single.

I've decided to not get married, it being too troublesome but I'm still open to change. I expect that one day my mother or grandmother will be attempting to set me up with some guy because apparently Chinese must get married... given that the family likes the person first... even before said sold-off family member has even met the individual.

OK I am 60 years old and my mother told me "You will never meet anyone". Now she is dead and I wonder if this is a self fulfilling prophecy. I have one bad marriage with no children, but no other bad marriages also no children. It is likely I am much older than all of you. It is strange. But now that my mother is dead it is like I am living life in reverse. Just as you normally marry young. I will marry old. As folks grow old, I seem to grow younger. It is kind of a Benjamin Button situation. Now I am free now I can be myself without judgement. Some things you will never know until you age. My boat was just after the Mayflower.

lol bill cosby!! ><

my parents say im not allowed to date either and i am scared as h*ll to do it but i really want to its hard not being able to show that i like him. im afriad if i do then he might ask me out and then what am i supposed to do. and also my parents are alwasy on the sex case not having sex but gender wise. your a girl you should always be claen if you were a boy i would inderstand but your a girl. no you cant go with you friends your a girl if you were a boy i wouldnt mind. why dont you help me around teh hosue thats whats a girls supposed to do boys dont have to but your a girl. its like wtf im sorry im a girl god. and about the dating thing i would love just to be able to know that if i wanted to i could date i prob wouldnt but i would love to know that i could so its one less thing i have to carry around on my shoulders but its no your not dating till after college. your not dating till after im married, you not getting married till you 27, if i date after im married wth am i supposed to date my husband???? i want to experience it how differnt guys are if i dont how am i supposed to find the right one and i just supposed to pick one and say i think he'll do and just live with it the rest of my life. i dont want to have to divorce him. i hate this an i cant tell my parents anything when i got my period i had a hard time telling my mom. the problem with asian people is they tell the whole fuc*ing worl everything. and they obsess over everything oh you got you peiord you have to be this that now and when they see other moms did you daughter get her peiod yet no not yet oh mine did yyayaya gosh i hate this im gald i found this blog.

Some good points raised in that post. Will be back to check for more.

Cheers,:)

wow, im surprised to see that so many of you also have this dilemma although it comes just from a purely cultural basis. many people who have a religious family also have this problem. im not saying what is right or wrong though. i think its good to have friends of the opposite gender to learn how to be social with everyone and feel more 'complete'. but getting to close to someone else too early might make it harder for you to figure out who you really are - or it might lead to heartache at a time when you have too many other important things on your mind... like maybe your career that will very much impact the rest of your life... and people change alot, especially in the 20-25 years age.

but ya, it is tough at times not to have a gf for me... i wont deny that...

but i think the best thing to do is to work hard to feel happy and confident about yourself without a significant other, then when you have achieved that, it will be easier to find a significant other... people will just naturally be attracted to you because you are happy with yourself and it will show... then you let your significant other be a complement to your life, not a supplement. i think thats the best way to go. so even if things dont work out, you will still be happy w/ yourself...

btw im 20, asian and Muslim

You're on the wrong side of the "20-25 years age" range to be so sure of your 'method'. That and you are coming from a completely different culture than what I assume as a predominantly non-muslim audience here. You can't separate and segment your life like this...."highschool...college...degree...job...success...marriage". It's completely arbitrary and unneccessary to do so. I would add "artificial" in there but that seems to be more of a cultural issue as I again will assume that the people you, niceguy777, deal with are working with the same social programming and parental enforcement so there is no other way for you to live without the supreme backlash of disownment and de-funding. As so to each their own.

In my view...
The body is always on...don't turn parts of it off thinking you're "diverting and concentrating energy elsewhere"....18-25y.o. is the perfect time to try to have it all. And all isn't all that much more when you are reasonably managing your time and balancing your needs both professionally(academics,career,etc.) and personally(emotional needs*).

*bigger than you think. Much BIGGER. Even for Muslim.

Hey Yapyapenstein,

I agree with you that i may be on the younger side of the "20-25 years age" but that doesnt mean i can't observe and learn from the actions of others who are older than me and have already been there. Also, just to put it out, I was born and raised in Canada and basically my Mom was as well - so its not like im a new immigrant to this country from a foreign culture... Most asians, regardless if they are religious or atheist still have basically the same culture when it comes to dating.

But i agree with you about not segmenting your life, that is a good point.

However, i still stand by what i said that it is firstly more important to work hard to be happy and content with yourself, figure out who you are and what you want in life and then find someone else to be a "complement" to your life. If you have already reached that point, then yes, i say go ahead and get a g/f or b/f because you will probably stay together and maybe get married so its worth your investment in the relationship. But i think you'd agree that most people have not reached that point in their life at the early 20s when they're still doing their undergrad etc... many people think that the moment they get a g/f or b/f it will cause their life to be a utopia - without any hardwork from their end.. somewhat of an easy way out. plus, i think you would agree that proof of this is that most of the relationships at this age range are short-term - its more of a "fooling around" than a "loving, committed relationship".. or more of "infatuation" than "love"... and all that time spent "fooling around" could be spent achieving things in life which would just make you more attractive to that special person when you are serious to get a long-term relationship or marriage (which is what really counts)

So i say, have friends, of both genders, do alot of networking and meeting new people, participate in activities that you like and are beneficial to your health/future, focus on improving yourself everyday and have fun while doing it. Then when you reach the point where you truly feel you are ready for a LONG-TERM relationship - not the common short term, "distraction from life" type of fooling around relationships - then go for it, and you'll be more successful in it when you do.

well said niceguy777

man I remember when I use to imagine how it would of been if i married the first person i wen out with. what a disaster that would of been.

My first and current boyfriend got together sometime towards the latter half of Junior Year in HS. My parents would tell my brother and I, "Don't start dating until College, okay?" And I agreed to it. Because every boy I liked always had eyes for someone else. And I honestly wanted to listen to my parents. But I met him. My boyfriend, who is good looking, extremely outgoing, who has TONS of girl friends, happened to like me. (Well, he liked someone else too, but we've all liked more than one person at one point, right?) But he liked me! .. And I really liked him. But how could I have ever known? Me being too-thin, ordinary, somewhat shy.. And i was SO sure I left enough hints for him. The blushing, the constant chats, the random IMing...spells obvious, amiright? xD.... So...an extremely long story short- An ex-best friend of mine hooked us up. I remembered what my parents had said...but I kind of felt pressured by my ex-best friend, as well as many of my other friends. Its "ex" because I could not devote as much attention to my former best friend as I had in the past..

So three months into the relationship, my mom spontaneously guessed that I was in a relationship. Here's how it went down. On that day, I went to my boyfriend's BBQ, and that day when I got home, the strangest thing happened.
mom: "Where were you today?"
and before I could speak, She added "at a barbecue?"
me: "... yeah.. how do you know?"
mom: Whose barbecue was it? A boy's?
me: O_O..... yeah...
[I swear she or my father must have stalked me that day..]
And an hour or two after that.. she asked me straight out. And I couldn't lie to her. And though she didn't go ballistic, she kept saying, "you're too young. You don't know how boys are." etcetc.
But other than that my parents let me be.
And I did get the sex talk. It went something like-
mom:"you know how babies are made, right?"
me: yeah..
mom: and you know about protection and stds and all the other good stuff right?
me: yeah
mom: okay good. Don't get pregnant.
(There was more lecturing involved but I feel like I've ranted for too long already... So I'll end this soon)

My mom still reminds me that 'I'm too young' all the time, even though it's been over a year. I somewhat agree with her. Even though I'm 18, I feel (and look) a lot younger..
Sorry about the rant; I just wanted to share my story
Thanks for reading,
Susan

I'm living with my single mom,and of course, she constantly reminds me of how school is of "the utmost importance" and at this age "love" can't possibly last. "it will only end in heartbreak and it's a distraction from school! You don't want to ruin your life, do you?" (oh it gets worse...) I'm also the only child so -insert a bunch of Asian relatives- are counting on me. >_<

Anyhow, I managed to fall in "love" with a guy and he likes me as well...? xD *nervous chuckle* Mom has *some* idea of whats going on, although I never told her, she's made it clear I'm not allowed to date till I'm in university. (18 to be exact) I had gladly accepted that rule before as I didn't like anyone at that time. I don't actually plan to start "dating" but it's summer and I can't see him for almost 3 months! (we use ims) So now I'm feeling kinda anxious...but he's aware of the "18" rule and promises to wait for me...^-^...though I can't help but feel bad. Right now I'm just hoping we'll have a lot of classes together next year!

My first boyfriend in high school had a strict, controlling mother who not only forbade him from dating, but also got mad at him for even talking to girls. Since we had to keep our relationship a secret, we would wait until his mother had gone to bed to talk on the phone. Eventually, she got suspicious about this, but instead of telling us to get off the phone, she would just pick up on another phone and silently listen to our conversation until we figured out someone was listening and hung up. I'm so glad my own parents aren't that "asian"!

i don't think my parents cared. i remembered asking my mom to pick up my birth control.

Let's see...I'm the youngest child, so I guess my parents gave me a lot longer leash than my older sister had. She didn't start dating til college, my brother started dating in...jr year of hs?...and I started freshman year. Of course I never told my parents about that one. I remember that one of my older guy friends asked me if I could go with him and two other friends to see a movie in seventh grade, and they totally freaked out even though it was a group thing. When I was with my second bf my mom was constantly telling me things like "you better not do anything you'll regret later" or "honor your body" and my very Christian fobdad gave me a book called something like "Why You Should Wait." They didn't like #2 too much. But now my parents are already treating my current boyfriend like their own son and asking about our intention to marry even though we're 19.

Wow, interesting site. Very revealing! Hey, if any one has comments about this, I'd be interested:

Mmmmm I used to draw only Western people in my kindergarten pictures. Maybe at 5 years old? At high school age, surrounded by nearly no Asians (except 100% whitewashed ones), at one point I just wrote a little cute card to a white guy, he just looked kind of cute. I didn't fit in this kind of childhood fancy, kind of didn't want to in the end. I didn't know too much about my hiding internal identity then.

All throughout my childhood, my Dad was pretty strict, skulking around if any guy of any race came around within a few feet, no matter age, relative, anyone. Taiwanese swear-words and other Taiwanese discipline was the norm growing up (hell yeah my Taiwanese is so good), we were kept pretty secretive and conservative. Mom was more neutral, passive, not so obsessive. Dad was so traditional, unfortunately it had the opposite effect in our teenage years, my sister just called all quits with my Dad, went out with a different race guy and my raging Dad wanted to kill him! Opposite effect, it "estranged" us from my Dad to this day. We weren't "taught" about relationships, just knew "no sex" blah blah, and we were pretty good at abiding, just made jokes about body parts, blah, but for me and my siblings, my Dad's upbringing it was kind of too much of a generation gap between old-style Taiwanese and 90s California... something has got to give... esp this is the U.S., and we didn't grow up around other Asians and Dad's 50s, 60s Taiwanese mindset doesn't work with the times in the U.S. Kind of sad for everyone in the end :(

As for me, in my third year of UC college i made good friends with a FOB (I learned this word after we'd been together for a year through other sources, see how "open-minded" and nonjudgmental I was b4 "society" influences with cheap words like "date" and "FOB or ABT wars", "is he cute looking" I still say to all that UGH), helped me get back in touch with my Taiwanese culture and upbringing, even brought me deep back into the Asian (not just Asian American) household ways, brought back my good childhood memories of Taiwanese jokes, even helped me consider my parents and elders much more than before (Confucian way, it's kind of stuck somewhere in my blood), it kind of brought me home to my Taiwanese pride, he opened up my world to "guy-girl" and it was my first time, so I had no expectations, but of course at end completely out of touch with reality, we kind of got "too close" physically for me, since I was sitll quite "guai" and very young (in terms of guy-girl and what they all talk about when in love :) and not ready at all, just kind of stupid and slow wihch only makes guy too fast and smart.....yeah I'm kind of passive too! Uh-oh, boy and girl together uh-oh :) kind of funny started out talking in Taiwanese and Chinese and English, shared a lot of troubles and feelings, shared some heart things, I didn't hide too much, more truthful further on, so much fun, hugging, hold hands, talking about a lot of the more traditional things like in my childhood, his childhood (not in U.S.), Chinese stuff (yeah like Chinese medicine, the "anmoh" massage, career, parents, grandparents, aunts and uncles, cousins abroad, lots of Chinese jokes - I actually get them - health in general), I hung out with most of his FOB friends, found we were accepting of each other, playing around, making three-language jokes, I went to his place for study and ahem.. maybe more than study hee hee :) - but had to get real, this is just a FOB friend. My Mom knew, his family knew, my Mom she just was watchful, told me to be careful (I kind of said Uh-huh uh-huh :), when I told my (mmm... very, very traditional and therefore sadly but truly very estranged) dad much later, he told me in Chinese and Taiwanese I was so stupid, just yelling, it made me feel bad in my heart I had told him, like an American talking to a Taiwanese ojiisan, esp when he asked about aaaaall the details, and I was so "guai" I did tell him a lot. I kind of jumped back and forth from Chinese FOB and kind of Americanized ways, then between my FOB friend and my very, very traditional Taiwanese Dad. In end, I had a breakdown with this "dual life" of Taiwanese and Chinese, or triple life since after all I'm AMERICAN, and realized.... I am actually kind of American, just with rather rich Taiwnanese background throughout my life compared to some ABTs. In end, due to other factors, I end up detaching myself from both my guy-friend and my Dad's very traditional thinking. I wanted to be free of these falsehoods, free of sad tears, free from the falsehood jarring inside of me, sweet as they look. It doesn't work out. Period. (Tears streaming with a sad smile.)

With my FOB friend, i really liked him, he really liked me, and I like him, still do (we were faithful to each other throughout, accepted each other, respected each other for the most part, I as a girl looked up to him, we shared a lot of things that only boys and girls share when others aren't around to hear or see), but I decided not to keep in touch, it emotionally affected me far too much to see how "impossible" it would be since I couldn't lie to myself anymore, and us being together would influence our relations with others later, and I am tired of a double life. So, on good terms and with bittersweet tears and a sad smile, I asked not to have contact with my friend. It took months for me to finally say NO. At beginning, he cried, I cried (how can I let others down?) we just wept together, the sweet dream disappeared of innocent boy-girl "grow up", as cruel reality and Truth seeps in, along with the sweet memories. (Maybe it's for the best to keep it like that, a good, short beautiful dream that's faded away, as a good memory that is PAST.) He agreed, also on good friendly terms. We even made some jokes about it, since we're both of pretty good temper (it and we were more like "boy-girl" having fun and just growing up than serious man-woman or guy-girl, where it gets serious and true, I even heard big fights and stuff. Now the sadness is fading. I got real, so to speak. I am after all not even a Chinese girl, would get homesick staying too long with a FOB guy or with my Dad (who is probably even more FOBBY), no matter how good is my Chinese/Taiwanese and comfort level being with just Chinese/Taiwanese people (pretty damn good!!) or how much I cling to traditions, holidays, respect elders foremost, visit Taiwan regularly, stick to my (well, just relatively!) conservative personality and traditional ways, blah.

In the end, as a Taiwanese American who has been through some things, as gray, gloomy, even dark and bleak as everything seems, I think (scratch head?) my future is open. I was never too subject to "American" ideals, since I was kind of sheltered from too many of those weird books/movies/American-style stuff. Magically. (I still owe it to Mom and Dad, strict as my upbringing was, which would probably make most kind of resentful.) Kind of isolated from American-style ideals of marriage. God, I'm glad so! I'm still kind of traditional, at 23 even though I am exhausted, tired of not fitting in anywhere with anyone in my family or in society in Taiwan or the U.S., I guess I am still youngish, I'm still thinking "anything is possible", if I'm open-minded to have dated a Chinese FOB guy and liked him for who he is (even though I asked him for 100% cut-off to end my heartsickness, I still truly like him and his personality, just not meant to be, just like acting after a while as I matured I realized this), despite whole world's view or society norm, anything is possible - even balancing the Taiwanese traditions (I'm rather fobby about some things, even though I was born in U.S.) in a American way of life. It's difficult as 1st generation Taiwanese American to be Truly in Love, not beautiful norm, American way, romance, but rather just the kind of love that keeps people together for many, many years, I become a Mom, he becomes a Dad maybe, a relationship based on truth and faith to each other, not other things, parents included!

As for marriages/relations I only know about Taiwnaese ones since I only knew about my Mom and Dad, and when in Taiwan to visit my relatives, I have no choice but to spill my guts in Taiwanese and Chinese (or else stand there, like a weird hermit), and my 70+ relatives and others would do likewise! Whew, I learned waaay much more than I need to know, even some very funny or some kinda disgusting details, from some of my church members in Chinese or from my Taiwanese obaasan and ojiiisan in Taiwanese. Yeah, so I know about extramarital affairs, jealousy, competition for Mom's attention, suicide, relations, backstabbing, family values (or lack thereof), real child abuse, neglect, etc. In Chinese and taiwanese they taught me lots about human nature, etc. mostly through my Taiwanese relatives since now there is practially no language barrier for my ears when I'm in Taiwan. My Mom is kind of my sex-ed teacher. I just think when I'm not ready, when I'm in a family crisis or don't know about my own self enough, what's the point in having sex? Mmmm, Yeah, I'm kind of a open-minded, but traditional girl this way. I understand some nuances, like the unspoken glance in less than a second, the silences, the "pretend I didn't see" to save someone's face, how to hide those glances, arm-punches, big no-nos and secrets embedded at 100 wpm in relatives' acting around, etc, it's a Taiwanese art almost, and just about 95% of everything they say in Chinese and taiwanese, but ... how do they understand me, as a ABT girl? Just like yesterday, my grandaunt was talking to me in Taiwanese and Chinese, asking if I understand (mostly "duh") and then she asked me in Taiwanese what I was thinking. I struggled to let her know I was thinking of some GRE content or grad school stuff. Kind of hard to translate/explain ehh :) Some of my older, Chinese and Taiwanese relatives and friends read my expression and fill in my broken-off silence or automatically assess my weird family situation just like that (snap fingers), so it's a gift to be able to communicate with them.
But, my big BUTT,,,
But to know "lots" about complex relations in Taiwan - how does that help me as a Taiwanese American living in the U.S.? Don't know. "caught btw 2 worlds" is not all.

But I am glad I didn't go through the whole high-school-we hate FOBS as ABTs they so Chinese-or we as FOBs hate ABTs they have no "class" and hate themselves - thing. I didn't know or think about this until much later, as junior and senior in college, when I was just wholly into academics and eating semester credits, being active around the dorm, social causes, blah, all that "college" stuff, etc. Now that reality sinks in as a graduate, I could never "be" a FOB in dating and share the more traditional Taiwanese/Chinese culture mostly with extended family in China/Taiwan - it's just like asking me to get married to a Taiwanese college student when I'm just a US-born ABT! Imagine that! Kind of difficult, ay, even though I am rather traditional and becoming heavier and heavier (literally too) with Taiwanese influence (and food).

About drugs - I stand with my parents more so than with others. They didn't "lecture" me that much. Thankfully (my parents would be happy), I just know and feel there's no need, asking for more trouble. Like alcohol, sex, no thanks. I feel there's a big possible "regret" so that's keeping me more conservative, despite what my siblings or others think.

As for role models - there is no "Asian American couple" so I guess i will just "cut out" my own dream. I for one don't buy into the Hollywood stuff, not even the Asian American films that much (take no offense, as ABT, I still cheer the Asian Americans in media on yay!), but somehow I feel there is something more true, something bigger.

In the end, I still dream of being with an ABT as a boyfriend, maybe later as husband. That'd be "keeping it real". No matter who/what my child is/looks like, or who father is, I would one day love to "show off" my child to my Taiwanese obaasan and ojiisan relatives, as well as my Aunts and Uncles who never once set foot in the U.S. (maybe out of pity at my ABT awkwardness, they'd help to rear the child ha ha score! :P

Maybe at 23, in middle of school/work/big life change/big personal/self-esteem/awareness blah blah transformation, I don't need to worry. It's impossible for me to be a FOB and always be with one, yet there is a lot of tradition ingrained in me, something that's hard to explain to others. I guess it makes me more immune and less subject to all those stupid and unreachable "ideals" in this society. Then again, sometimes being in U.S. society, the challenges would just "test" or relation, even though I'd probably drag my "friend" to Taiwan, too. I guess truth (tough one), harmony (I'm of good temper and can bear quite a bit I suppose), faithfulness, forgiveness, sincere helpfulness towards each other, reminding each other of thankfulness, mutual compromise even sacrifice, all these things come out into a True relationship, one I as an ABT cannot even have with my own Dad, with a FOB (he was in teens when he came to the U.S. vs. me I was born here), or with anyone I know yet. Ah, the future awaits me, I only know living a double life, a triple life is painful. Too many people to satisfy, it makes me sad and weary with falsehoods, almost bitter.

Ay, it's difficult to be a ABT. Sometimes I were very Americanized-ABT, or else very fobby, as long as I were okay with myself being that way. But I guess I accept I am what I am as a Taiwanese American. Despite what parents say, the silly things or made-up "problems" that society puts in my mind, I think somehow I will find a true Love.

- Just another American born Taiwanese girl

Remember I said comments are welcome! This message is certainly long enough to warrant one or two

My Chinese parents were too ridiculously embarrassed to even address the topic of boys when I was younger. They only discussed boys once; there was one VERY awkward car ride from school where they asked me if I would marry a white guy. I said "I dunno" (i was 11!) and they just glared at me and left it at that. But it didn't really matter to me, because my most important goal in life was to attend UC Berkeley as I had set that goal in second grade.

Well after I got into Berkeley, my parents went crazy on me. They went from not even mentioning that my Dad was a guy to encouraging me to get a "nice, smart Chinese-American boyfriend at Berkeley" ALL THE TIME! They said that CAL is a good place for finding a good husband. And they even encouraged me to "play the field" and "date many guys at one time without telling them" so that I could have many options and then I would be popular. I know!

I actually think that my parents only behave this way because a good school = good guys. It also matters that I'm not a typical nerdy Asian because I was pretty popular in high school and I was always obsessing about clothes and friends and my social life. But because I've always been very independent and sensible, I don't want to just date around just to date. Even if my parents jump from one extreme to the other, I'm the 'one-man woman' type.

On the other hand, my sister (who also got into UCB) is a freshman right now and just started dating a Mexican guy. My parents FREAKED out and they say it's okay if they're "casually dating as friends" because my sister will end up poor and pregnant and "her Mexican" will leave her if she's serious. Yeah, my parents are pretty racist but they're so Chinese. And (this must annoy her to death) they always ask her why she can't be more like me, her older sister. And they even tell her not to date because she's not ready for it like I am. There's just too many dimensions of double standards here.

Hurr..my parents are the same way -_- . My younger brother is free to do whatever he likes because he thinks the same way as them (e.g. judges people based on their occupation [doctors/lawyers/accountants/engineers/dentists/pharmacists = GOD, people who do not belong to the above mentioned professions= epic fail] and hates everyone who isn't Chinese).

When I told them about my boyfriend (who is an Indian graphic designer) they had a fit and kept telling me about how he only likes me because of my skin colour (wtf!?!). Oh and how he's going to give me AIDS (double wtf) -_- . Needless to say they forced me to break it off with him via emotional blackmail/constant harassing.

A few months later during CNY my mum was all 'OMG do you have a nice chinese doctor/pharmacist bf yet? ^_^ ' .

Seriously makes my blood boil D: .

geebus, reading this makes me so grateful for my parents.

my parents are fairly liberal, though they are rather disapproving of high school relationships and younger. they really haven't had to sit me down or anything, though, cause I didn't really get out of my extreme bookishness until mebbe freshman year of high school. Imma senior now and my mom is trying to get me to pretty myself up. (haha, I should probably learn how to use makeup one of these days...)

I think my parents have a few hints of fobbishness, like introducing people based on colleges and comparisons, but really, the relative freedom they gave me has (I believe) shaped me for the better. I understand their feelings and also agree with their views; I suppose it may be different down the road, but at this point I wouldn't trade them for anyone else.

Also, I think Asian parents have an inherent racism in them, despite any westernization or such. it was probably just part of their culture back where they lived and they only heard about various black or white or whatever people.

for my parents it's all about status. my mom feeds me stories about how such-and-such relative married lower and is now separated or whatever. so she won't take anything lower than a doctor. doesn't matter if a girl isn't attractive or has a crummy personality or has conflicting career goals. they're also pretty racist. i avoid them as much as possible so i don't have to take crap from them.

My parents regret telling me not to date when I was younger. I'm in college and I've never had a boyfriend. I haven't met anyone who meets my standards so I've decided I don't want to get married. My parents always told me to never let anyone stand in my way or distract me from getting my work done. Well, the damage is pretty much done because I've become too much of an independent person to ever let anyone into my life.

I remember my grandmother telling me that getting involved with someone would ruin my life. "Don't date until after college!" I hope they're happy that I'm a heartless bitch who doesn't want to get married. Too bad they won't have any grandchildren. Thanks mom and dad!

being an independent person has nothing to do with whether or not you want to let people into your life. yes, you are self-sustainable, but that doesn't mean you don't have friends, does it? i'm sure that you have friends who care about you.
having someone love you has nothing to do with being independent.
i think you're just scared of someone loving you because it'll disrupt your equilibrium.
i also think that you're scared of loving someone because you're afraid that no one will ever love you.
get over it and don't blame your parents.
your ability to love is created by yourself.
find someone. be assertive.

thank you heffalump. completely agree.

this is me as well. I've suppressed my hormones so much that I'm literally void of emotion when I meet a person of the opposite sex. If there's even a flash of hormone activity, my brain's been essentially conditioned to shut it down instantly. I hope my parents appreciate the excruciating emotional conflict I go through on a regular basis to make them proud.

I so agree with what you've said M! I've had the conversation with my fellow Asian and non-Asian girlfirends. As a Chinese-American I received the "Don't date until after college!" not only from the 'rents but from family friends too! It's total bs as it sets an Asian kid up for failure if they're not supposed to date until later. Sticking with that more to a T makes one socially inept. If you don't start dating at a young age OR at least in college, you just don't really know how to interact with someone. I haven't met anyone whose met my standards either and like I tell my friends I just don't miss what I've never really had, i.e. dating history. Especially after seeing friends go through heartache and pain from their relationship issues, it's pretty much the pits!

My parents liked to state that they are open minded, but it's a lie. I point blanked asked my mother if she would love a future full Chinese grandchild more OR a biracial one, or would it not matter- she told me of course she would love the full Chinese grandchild more. How heartbreaking is that to hear? Given family history (strokes, congestive heart failure disease, Alzheimer's, etc) I'm not even positive I want to bring a child into this world.

When my father recently passed away my mother told me that I could have my guy friends be pallbearers, but they HAD to be asian. Why? Because according to her dad didn't like my non-Asian friends as much as my Asian friends. One of my closest friends is an interacial couple and the husband is white- I had so wanted him to be a pallbearer as they'd always been there for me. Thank goodness my friend's husband knew enough from his years of being with his chinese wife that that was just how things are with Fobby parents.

The flip side I've had from my mom is that at times she says "If you don't want to get married, that's fine, just say so." Other times she's asked me (A) if I was a lesbian because I hadn't brought anyone home as a boyfried. She'll tell me when I'm driving, get this, (B) oh, you must have someone, you're just ashamed of me and your father, that's why you haven't brought one home. OR sometimes it's (C) you know you're not bad looking, just a little chubby, it must be your personality that you're picky that you can't find someone. WTF am I supposed to think with this?

Can't satisfy the remaining parental unit. Don't even get me started on my aunts/uncles. One of my senior paternal aunts is already livid with the fact that her grandson-in-law is black and that her great grandson is half chinese and black. Old Country Asians aka Fobs are just plain prejudiced.

I'm not allowed to date until I finish med school. I'm still an undergrad. I haven't even applied.


I've been with my boyfriend for over a year now. My mom calls me to tell me my dad has started drinking because of it (I'm quite sure she's exaggerating). "Are you going to finish school?" Fact 1: having a boyfriend increases your chances of quitting school by 95%.

"Why are you living like you're married? You're not married. Don't spend so much time together." This was on a Sunday when I called her asking for a recipe. She asked me where I was. I told her i was at my boyfriend's house and needed to know the recipe to a cake I wanted to try and make. Fact 2: Baking a cake at your boyfriend's house
means you're (pretending to be) married.

"What? You're going to see him AGAIN? Oh. you're going to give me a heart attack. I'm going to die early. You're making it too easy for him. Don't be easy." This is Friday night when I pick up the phone on the bus and she asks me where I'm going. Fact 3 and 4: Spend as little time with your boyfriend as possible to keep him on his toes. He is like a disease. Keep exposure to an absolute minimum. Not doing so will certainly shorten your parents' lifespan if not cause a full on cardiac arrest.

I'm turning 22 by the way and live on my own.

Haha! Fact 3 and 4 made me smile :)

My mother was the rebellious one in her Taiwanese military family. She left the rents, moved to the States for graduate school, married an American (and Cantonese-American at that!) She and my traditionally conservative grandmother purportedly had quite a lot of beef concerning personal issues that ranged all across the spectrum. However, I don't know the specifics of said beef, and I think this lack of knowledge has led me to falsely assume certain things about her.

Don't get me wrong-- my mother still harbors many, many FOB qualities (why else would I find so much joy in procrastinating on this site?) But I always thought this strict, frustrating woman was merely the product of many years of motherhood-- I thought she had been quite liberal as a younger woman.

I suppose I let my personal moral code delude me. I realize that although it was a huge, independent step for my mother to take, the generational gap is still absolutely immense. In many ways, she to her mother is as I to my mother. This is faulty English, I am almost positive (?), but since we're on the topic of FOBs...ya know, ya know.

She didn't seem to have a big problem with my sister dating in high school, but then again how was I supposed to know? I feel she is massively conflicted between her old sense of "rebellion" and the overweening force of conservative cultural roots. Once I began dating, she became noticeably more passive-aggressive: "People your age should not date," she'd say (i'mma 18)-- "This boyfriend is a disadvantage to your schoolwork." She would voice her obvious discomfort/disapproval without telling me outright that I should not be doing it...and in effect, I was rendered inexplicably, unnecessarily guilty. Booooo

On the topic of DOING IT, I had no idea how to respond. She has no clue-- in fact she was completely unaware of my older sister's sexual shenanigans until unfortunate HPV struck. She approached me about it by asking, "How is this 'dating' any different from you being just friends? What else do you EXPECT to do?" I responded to this with a long, awkward silence, and then eventually mumbled something like, "I dunno! We'll kiss or whatever....." Looking back, perhaps I should have re-phrased that, for she hurrumphed.

I guess the notion of sex to her is very different than it is to me. I'm not certain if it is purely a generational thing, but nonetheless I've come to realize that this bridge in ethics is perhaps one of the biggest gaps in our already very cavernous relationship. Her inherent disapproval of the lifestyle I deem normal strikes at my gut, naturally (what daughter loves the disapproval of her mother?), but I've come to the conclusion that I have been placed in a position not much different than the one she faced in the motherland. Yes, differing eras yield differing predicaments, but in the end...it's all the same. Which is terrifying.

So my wise advice to all you Azn brethren? Embrace the freedoms of our generation, and don't feel bad about doing stuff yo momma would throw a fit about. Cultural/generational gaps are meant to be usurped...but don't disregard them!

So. Who else has rebellious FOB parentals? Do they behave in a similar manner as mine? And what of confrontations over sexual shtuffs? Yo. I feel like I've committed word vomit. Someone respond, mmkay?

I never dated in high school because I was simply a nerd and too chicken to? A boy had asked me out once, but I knew that going on a date would only be embarassing for me when my family found out, so I said 'no.' He was pretty cute too. I think this embarassment was because I was still in an "I don't like boys" stage. Late bloomer, I know.

My parents had no problems with me dating in high school, but I guess I was too much of a nerd to really care about getting a boyfriend. I still don't want one, because getting into a relationship seems so much like a chore to go out every so often and worry about whether he/she likes X/Y about you, especially when it is inevitable that you will be breaking up due to life choice differences (I mean, how many couples in high school really get married? or college? especially if both of you want to go to grad school in different areas). I'd rather just be a hermit until I get a job and settle down somewhere. I'm 22, single, and still happy!

On a side note, my parents themselves dated people before marrying (though my dad was pretty much a playboy in his days). I guess that makes them less fobbish than usual.

that's a really cynical outlook on dating.
people date a lot because they're trying to FIND love, not just because dating is fun. it's the most beautiful thing in the world when two people really love each other, and it's the most amazing feeling to be loved.
i assure you that you'd be much happier in love.
you can't expect to just find your true love on a first date.
you have to learn from past relationships and understand how to receive and give love.
remember that you can be in love with someone who isn't your soulmate.

Exactly... so many Asians are subjugated by their parent's rules about dating that they come to despise something they've never even experienced and come to act like they WANT their parents to set up a dowry and play matchmaker for them. Stop being lazy, Asian youth! And none of this, "I've got my education and a job and I'm in my late 20's and I'm so satisfied and dating just seems like a hassle because I get tired after a long week and just want to relax with friends." Lazy! LAZY! Never thought the "successful bachelor/ette" was so prevalent... it's just social awkwardness..all that head-in-the-sand crap can relly delude some people with fear and isolation/lacking-experience which is counterproductive to everyone's real wants: gettin' some...with the best person and circumstances possible.

Funny story. In kindergarten, I had a guy friend who was my "boyfriend," and we even got married on the playground (I think that was inspired by an episode of Full House). Most parents would think it's cute. My parents flipped out. They had my aunt take me aside and give me this whole big talk about how I can friends who were boys but I could not have boyfriends. My kindergarten self was really confused. Now I'm a lesbian and I tell my mom that this is my root.

My parents have been oddly passive with the whole dating thing. In high school, they understood it was very casual and so did not really object. I think they were hoping I'd date the one Chinese guy in my entire year, but I disliked him intensely, so that didn't last. We lived in an area where there weren't a lot of Chinese people, so they figured the odds were I'd date white guys (which I did). Amusingly enough, when I was about to meet my current bf's extended family, I had to ask him if *his* family would be upset, because we were in the south and some of them are hicks. His response was some of them would have a problem if he dated a black girl, which is the same thing I'd say about my extended family.
I also noticed a generation gap between my parents (who immigrated for grad school) and my grandparents. My bf is 5 years older than I am, and my parents thought he was too old (their generation coupled up at the end of college, so people were often close in age), but my grandparents thought the gap was perfect, because traditionally, men were several years older than the women they married.

Dating, my parents said I couldn't start dating until after high school with the expectation I would attend college, little do they know my little brother in 3rd grade has a girlfriend. Well, my first relationship was at the end of my freshman college career; I've never dated an Asian, not saying that I won't it's just, Asian men tend to be very submissive. I'm also one of those girls you have to bludgeon with obvious announcement of attraction before they realize someone is attracted to them, and my continuous fear of men mobilized me. My parent's tactics for keeping me away from men were horror rape stories.... Of course I had the occasional crush (in honesty it was always fun with a crush in every class--made the time go faster. :D It didn't help that I was the traditional nerdy Asian. I wasn't really that smart, just tedious with homework and reading. Meh.

But currently Im with my 5th official boyfriend, and I'm incredibly happy. He's very very understanding, even though I have insecurity issues from the environment I was raised in, a very logical and understanding person, and has a great sense of humor. Although he can be quite horrible at times. :P

I'm glad I didn't have a boyfriend in high school, I wasn't ready for it, and I wasn't feminine enough. Unfortunately, my parents doesn't know about any of my exes or current boyfriend. In fact that other day when my mom walked in on my boyfriend and I watching "HOUSE" at my apartment; she said something along the lines of "you better not be dating a white guy" and even gave me the slapping and slicing the neck motion: which I believe signifies "you're dead if you do" I'd like an idea of how to break it to your parent you are dating a white guy (whom they violently won't like) because I don't like doing this; going behind my parent's back. (Although my dad would be okay with it, but it's mom who'd go crazy.)

I've been with my bf for six and a half years, and my parents have never liked him (no college degree, doesn't make a ton of money, and white). They've pretty much hoped we'd break up the entire time, but have been polite because they're smart and realized that if they told me not to date him, I wouldn't listen AND I'd be mad at them (I was in college by this time, so they couldn't keep that good of an eye on my anyway). They just made faces when I moved in with him and complained that he should go back to school, work harder, and cook more.
Then again, I sort of set the stage for this. Before I left for college, I told my parents I was going to have sex at some point in college, because that's just what happens in college. They took it awfully well, considering. I never been a stereotypically good asian daughter.
Really, it's much harder for parents to be controlling once you get to college, and especially once you graduate. What are they going to do other than yell at you? Not speak to you? (they'll miss you after a week) Not give you money and make you drop out of college? (conflict of values!) I don't know of any asian parent who would actually abandon their kid, no matter what the kid did. Suck it up, let them rant a bit, and ignore the ranting until they get over it.

Thanks a lot Kat, it helps tons. ^_^

Well, here goes. I was born and rised in Hong Kong til I came to US when I was 14 yrs old. My English was not that good at that time and I was studying in ESL classes until Junior year of High School. I remember my first girl friend in my life was a South American. We both were in the same ESL classes and History class. It was like love in first sight. We were dating in secret for about 5 months til decided to bring her home to show the parent. I forgot to mention that I have a twin brother also and between 2 of us, he is more like a book worm and I am the active one.

I remember full well that my parent was so shock that I have a girl friend for all these time.. and the wrost was that she's not Chinese nor Asian. Sad thing was they refused to talk to her for the entire dinner time and sort of ignored her. It really hurted her feeling but she didn't show at all. She told me that she understand and not matter what, she will still stand by me.

After a few months, I brought her to our house a few more times. My parent did changed after the 3rd tried. They began to talked to her and ask her question. It took them 2 good years to accepted her as my beloved other half. Even we were no longer together today, we still keep contact and my parent still asked for her from time to time to see how she is. My point is, I have see many Asian parent hoping their son or daugther would find a BF or GF thats their same race. It still exist to this very day.

My parents hated it when I dated in high school, which is the reason why I think I avoided it, but they were ok with it in college as long as I kept my grades up and as long as they liked the guy.

Anyway, I started dating my guy in my freshmen year of college, and my parents LOVE him. I think after the first eight months, my mom starting calling him her eldest son as a joke, and whenever we met people who asked if he was their son, they'd be like, "Yes, he's our eldest." (I'm the eldest with a younger brother.)

Anyway, it's been one year and three months, and they're hoping we get married after we graduate from college... lol =)

I love my parents... haha xD

I'm not Asian, but my family is still F.O.B.

When I was a kid my parents were on extreme opposite sides of the spectrum when it came to dating. When I was between 9 and 12 years old, my mom would tell me that kissing would give me AIDS. I pointed out that in health class they told me you can't get AIDS from kissing, and she said, verbatim, "They lied." She also told me kissing was sex which was not okay.

On the other hand, my father was a pervert and insisted on talking to me about naked women (I'm a girl and didn't need to hear about it) and wanting me to watch sex scenes with him, sometimes even lesbian ones. (A young girl who is 11 years old doesn't need that.)

So there you go. Between my two parents, I'm pretty messed up. Not to mention that even though I am getting my doctorate, American culture makes me feel like if I'm not putting out then no men will respect me. It's funny, you'd think I would feel the opposite. But I really am afraid to date any guys cause they probably just want sex and will look down on me for wanting a loving, trusting relationship without sex right away. I've felt this way for years, so I don't think it's just a phase or anything.

You have to wait long long long for your this type of friendship in US you are looking for this type of guys then it is not easy. If you really want a male friend then you have to ask your female friend who have male friends how to make friendship with guys

Okay, honestly now. Everyone makes it sound as though all the guys in the US only want sex, sex, sex, and more sex. While there may be a large number of guys with that type of mindset, not all guys are the same. Maybe you might be just looking in the wrong place. Or if he is out there, maybe he’s just as shy or timid as you are. Also, if you don’t get to know or date a guy, then how are you going to figure him out? Everyone knows that you can’t get to know someone unless you start talking to him or her. As hard and awkward as that may be sometimes, we all have friends. How did you get to know them? Everything starts out as just being friends, and develops from there. If you have a boyfriend or a girlfriend, but they can’t be there for you just as a friend in some aspects, then your relationship has some problems. Your significant other should be your best friend; someone you can open up to and be honest with.

I'm currently in high school so I cannot yet write about how I am thankful for my parents not allowing me to date.

Instances of "no dating until you're married" include listening on my phone conversations (sometimes through the other phone) and then asking loudly if I'm talking to a boy and sneaking up on me while I'm on the computer (while reading this site once) asking if I'm talking to a boy. It is also common practice to ask me if any of my girl friends have brothers.

Same here! When I go over to a friend's house, my parents always ask me if my friends have any brothers. The brothers are the most dangerous siblings xD

my parents do that to me too! i called one of my guy friends to talk to him about school stuff. i didnt want to use my cell b/c i didnt want to waste my minutes so i used the home phone. my parents have said before that i could have friends that are boys, just not boyfriends (i dont think they'd even let me have a friend thats a boy). my dad is the over protective type. he went into his room and picked up his phone so he could hear what i was saying on the other line. he automatically suspected i was talking to a guy as in- a boyfriend. i hurried up and ended my conversation with my friend. and my dad just sat at the dining table...with a very disappointed look on his face.

It's interesting see that, even though I'm on the older side (30s) that things haven't seemed to change much with 1st or 2nd generation asians and their families when it comes to dating/relationships. I for one never had an issue, perhaps because I'm a guy with two other brothers, but the gf issue was never addressed.

I did find it funny when my mom said about my younger brother, who still had some acne in college, said (names changed)

Mom: "Why does Sam have pimples? He's been going out with Diane for a while."
Me: "What do you mean?"
Mom: "You know, they've been going out, so...."

What I finally assumed she meant was that since they were dating, he shouldn't be "backed up" with testosterone, and thus have clear skin.

What I also find fascinating is that Asian parents seem to have a very specific window for when kids should find their true love. No dating until college, but if you start to get into your late 20s, its arranged matchup time! So you have about 8 years to figure it out. Get to it.

Funnily it doesn't work that way (testosterone). The younger siblings can run into the issues of having weaker Jing and Kidney Yin due to maternal weakness from aging and birthing. And so, even just plainly being on the Yin Deficiency side can lead to poorer skin tone and Heat eruptions (acne; Yang is not mated by Yin and so Heat raises to the Exterior and releases, surprisingly, many a times at exact acupuncture points). Parental constitutional influence (epi/genetics) and seasonal influence (different seasons effect different meridians, at ~10 month gestation, each of the 5 seasons is ~10 weeks, and so there is one season which under-influenced the highly-susceptible fetus; people born in Autumn can tend to have skin issues when imbalanced; again, all about many other influences at different times.) "Masculine releases" are more prone to -causing- acne as the Kidney and Liver meridians are relieved of Yin which can lead to flair ups of un-paired Yang energy and also Heart meridian imbalance and Heat, stagnation, and damn near every single kind of other problems. It's difficult to talk about Chinese medicine without returning to the default position of needing to know tons of backstory about each person.

"No dating until college, but if you start to get into your late 20s"

you're lucky. I can't date until I reach age 30. I like what tingyin mentioned above about the whole dating scene, cause I can really relate to it:

"All during high school I felt torn between wanting to date like Americans do--anyone they like, dating casually, etc--and respecting my parents wishes. High school was a big pit of dating peer pressure--it seemed like everyone was dating or was coupled up, and I wanted that, too, to be in that crowd, happy and together, but it never happened."

I find this thread interesting in that so many Asian Americans really are in the same boat. A lot of times I find, it's difficult to meet like minded asians - ones that are not too fobby, where i can't relate to them, but still appreciate their culture and don't shun it completely. Since moving to California, I have definitely met more. I believe we live double lives. The good asian girl at home, quiet, pours the tea correctly when told, and the girl I really am, living my life in LA. Oddly, I find parents have affected my dating life more than I would care to admit. As much as I live my own life for me, which I keep separate from my family life, when I was in high school, I had a boyfriend. He was not Asian...I lived in Florida and Asian was simply not the norm. I wasn't allowed to date. Ever. And eventually my boyfriend got tired of having a girlfriend he could never see. I haven't had a boyfriend since. I am now almost 26 years old. I never learned to interact with boys at a young age and now I have become so independent I don't ever feel the desire to date. I feel as if my life is already busy and fulfilled and though, I am not saying I never will date in the future...I just don't know when I'll be ready.

I know how you feel. I'm 19 and have never had a real boyfriend before. I mean, there have been awkward "friends with benefits" situations and whatnot, but because I've never been in a relationship before, I don't really know how to act or express myself around guys that are potential partners. I don't really feel the desire to date either, and society tells us that it's wrong or weird to feel that way.

Not to mention, in the future, having to enter the dating game relatively late with more experienced players. Some people don't mind, but it intimidates me.

"Not to mention, in the future, having to enter the dating game relatively late with more experienced players. Some people don't mind, but it intimidates me."

same. maybe there are more people in the same boat then i realized, but its definitely intimidating. and i've yet to get over this apprehension

that's something many of my friends bring up when they learnt about my parents' rules [no dating 'til after tertiary education].

but somehow having "experience",I don't think, is something to worry about. you just want to find the one guy/girl. :)

I <3 this site.

I don't know if my 'culture' or 'parents' really influenced me on my views on dating. Maybe they did, maybe they didn't, but if they did, I'm completely oblivious of it.

Well... I do agree with them about the 'don't date till you're old enough' part....sort of. I had my first (and only) boyfriend...I think I was... eh. 13? or 14? (Ironically, it wasn't that long ago either. I'm still in High School.) The problem was, I didn't like him. Not one bit. (This is the part where you laugh and wait for the irony)...'cause I'm gay (gay as in, I'm a girl, and I like girls.) --- so the whole moral of this short story is...I learned that it's no good to date when you're in your early teens or younger, 'cause you really have NO IDEA what you're doing. (Though from the looks of it, most people who are active on this site is, well, older than 13/14.)

Well, here's the first crush story. :D it's kind of cute now that I recall it...'cause it's really innocent...I just immigrated to Canada that year, I was nine, she was my neighbor and the only kid around that's my age and that can speak Mandarin. AND she was in my grade five class. Though I think I liked her at first sight.....I can still remember the moment I walked in the class room and glanced around to see everyone's attention on me (including her.) --- I liked her for about four years...from nine to at least 13. I moved away during the summer of grade five going to grade six. I didn't talk to her again till this year (Which btw, I'm in grade ten right now). I'm such a coward, xD she accepted me (not my affections, of course. i'm not that lucky.) and we're titled 'childhood friends' with each other. As for the role of my parents during this whole mess....their role was non-existent. I never told them, I never will. (Well, not till they're ready to accept that their only child is gay. Which, I don't suspect will happen anytime soon...I'm not even hopeful enough to hope that they'll accept me in the future...not willingly at least.)

As for their rules of dating, I'll have no trouble at all keeping it.

Rules:
Mom: "No boys till you're in university! No boys!"
Me: "Okay mom, you don't have to worry about that...at all.." (or ever.)

OMG I'm gay too! My mom knows and she thinks i'll grow out of it. Strangely enough, it works to my advantage..for now. I can tell her I'm spending the night at my girlfriends house, and she'll have no problem with it at all. However, this is only temporary, I don't know how things will be if I decide to move in..or get married.

haha me 3 on that! My mom thinks that all people like us make the world end...It's ridiculous. I never tell her when my girlfriend is here or when I'm at hers lol.

I'm gay too - well, lez ;-]

I once jokingly said to my mum "that guy will stop bothering me if I say i'm lez"

mother: "NO WHAT ARE YOU THINKING OF? !! NONSENSE NEVER SAY THAT."

guess i'm not telling them anytime soon. they pride themselves on being open-minded & liberal & supporting gay rights.. i think my dad wouldn't mind that much.

I grew up reading books like the Sweet Valley High series and couldn't wait until my very first boyfriend. I didn't bother to tell my parents when I started "dating" because I knew they'd disapprove. Unfortunately I lived in a small town and conservative neighbors took it upon themselves to report back to my mom when they saw me holding hands with my boyfriend while walking home from school. My mom would tell me that they disapproved of me dating and didn't want me to get too close to boys. But of course the more that they would discourage me the more I'd rebel thinking I knew better and that they just didn't understand. I guess we sort of called a truce eventually where we just wouldn't talk about my relationships. My parents are finally resigned to the fact that I'm living with my boyfriend of 5 years even though we're not married. But the thing is, outside of my parents and my sister, no one else in the family knows because otherwise my parents would feel shamed. I know my parents are proud of me otherwise, but they're just stuck in the old ways in this one area.

woahhh living in? hmmm don't know how my parents would react to that (if I ever did that)... probably negatively

My parents would kill me. Actually, I would just never, ever do that myself. Wrong.

why is it wrong to live with someone you love?

BECAUSE GRANDMA SAID SO. XD

There are subtle psychological implications of not making a longterm statement of commitment that degrades the value of your life and wears you down having to always "be interesting enough to keep them". When "needs" change the baby can be thrown out with the bathwater and it's always the weaker one of the couple that gets left in the lurch. But hey, 5 years living together? Pretty good. But I think it may be possible that it's the tension of restriction that's holding it together; without ma and pa it might not have enough taboo-glue to bind it ("We're doing it, yep...yep, keep on tabooing because I wanted it like that back then and there's been no resolution to these issues of parent-child relationship evolution and so we're stuck in a timepoint framed by static rebellious attitudes on sex..yep...keep going...hold it steady...yep..keep it going...") . But who knows. I'm not one to judge but it seems a little flaky..no...hella flaky to live with someone for that long and make no official statement of commitment ("Let me introduce you to my apartment-mate, we're more than just bf/gf, more than just apartment-mates, but less than husband-wife...and there's not really a swift term to utter in these situations so we'll just say we're, like, serious bff's.") If you were just merely dating then 5 years is going into "degrading interdependence" mode where one of you isn't mature enough to ask for marriage while the one waiting for it grows resentful both for the asker and also themself for not being valuable enough to keep forever nor able to deem themself valuable enough to find someone who would think that. Ask yourself, "is this really developing into a life long relationship, or are we coasting on the fumes of our youth, a perpetual funky lockgroove with enough movement to seem like it's not dead but really incapable of going anywhere due to lack of the deep trust and devotion that comes with marriage?"

Life is long, but it's also very short.

so by conforming to the social standard of 'marriage' you are somehow dignifying your interaction with another? Not only is this asinine, but it runs completely counter to your long diatribe above about defining your own ethical perspective on the world. idiot.

Let me start with a reply to your call of "idiot": --> cunt.

My enthusiastic "diatribe" was about the freedom of relationships necessary for the proper social development (you know, that hierarchical environment defined by "social standards"?) of someone so that they will be ready later on to engage in a committed relationship. This is a much different context to being five years into a committed relationship which you aren't willing to make public because of "family shame". I'd go so far as to say this mechanism is this fool's "backdoor" for terminating it at some future point, ("The family pressure just became too much, it's better we split the apartment deposit and move on.") or for use as a stressor/weapon against his family for unrelayed wrongs done either explicitly or for the difficulty they had in assimilating into a culture that they found themselves at an disadvantage in for his parents' "value based" values. No, you don't need to get married but if you only "avoid the social standard of marriage" because you're unwilling to stand behind your decision and present your lifestyle to family or for other reasons like "my parents divorced so I'm scared of what marriage would do to us" then you're a far lesser thing than a "hypocrite", which if you've read this far you'll realize I'm not and that you've got reading comprehension issues. It's rather easy to live by your own rules like coupling-without-marrying when you're completely removed from a social/family environment that presents a pressure counter to the values inherent in such action, and this is essentially to what I was speaking ( yes, marriage is just paper work and dignity can be bestowed without it, point: you...and me.) It's now a matter of how far away are they willing to separate from family to feel comfortable in their actions. And yes, for those worried about "family shame'" there will be, out of necessity, a need for "dignifying your interaction with another".

Um. Maybe you can try to be a little less judgemental. You are making a lot of assumptions. People make choices for many different reasons.

My father was very open about who we dated and married. He said that we could EVEN marry a black girl! Of course, my grandmother said that she wouldn't allow that.

As for actual dating, I didn't really date until after college and it wasn't because my parents didn't allow it. I was just too awkward around and scared of girls. Being out on my own was very liberating and that may have somehow made me more attractive to the ladies.

I am also one of those people who cannot date until college is over. Well, I'm a first year in college, with a boyfriend of three years (with one long break) and my parents still don't know we're dating. I think it was made a lot easier when my boyfriend couldn't date either so it wasn't as hard to hide it from my parents b/c he had to be paranoid about our relationship too. I feel like it is important to look up to parents for cues about relationships - especially if you're in a serious one - but I had no one to look up to. At the end of the day, just the idea of being in a loving relationship was new to me (especially since my parents were almost emotionally in that respect), and it was hard to deal with the whole idea of what does it mean to be in a loving respectful relationship.

My parents were pretty restrictive until senior year about my social life so it was hard for me to see him (we was two grades ahead) but I don't know... maybe it's my own moral issue but somehow I rationalized that it was okay to lie to them because they thought it was okay to stop me from doing something that wasn't hurting me.

I have yet to have the birds and bees talk though I had a very awkward, dont let a boy get too close to you, conservation - which was done entirely in Cantonese.

My mom never really had a talk about dating or not. I went out with my first boyfriend in grade 12 and my mom knew about him because he insisted on asking my mother's permission at our Thanksgiving party. He made it to be a really awkward conversation where my mom told us it was okay to be really good friends as long as we focused on our schooling and marks so that we could get into university. Mother's intuition was on the dot. She knew when things went sour without anyone telling her, and starting giving me the reassuring "it's okay, you were too young anyway" talk. Then the month before I headed off to University she attempt to have "the talk".

Something along the lines of
Mom: It's okay to experiment with drugs and alcohol, but don't do it.
Me: What?
Mom: Don't do it.
Me: I thought you just said I could experiment...
Mom: Yes. You can experiment with drugs and alcohol, but don't do it.
Me: Don't do what?
Mom: It.
Me: What's it?
Mom: IT! DON'T DO IT!!!
Me: Don't do what?!
Mom: JUST DON'T DO IT OKAY!?

So now, I'm going out with boyfriend for life, and mom knows about him too. Cept she constantly emails me with philosophical-like emails telling me that things will work out, and that everything is a learning process. She assumes that if I am not exuberantly happy, that we broke up, and thus sends more emails about how there are tons of fish in the sea, and reminds me of all that was wrong with first boyfriend, and that I am still learning and things will okay in the end.

My mother was one of those asian mothers who said, "No dating until after college!!!!" -insert extra random azn ramble here-

Now the thing is, that changed as I was very resistant to my mother. I began dating my first love sophomore year of high school, and of course, my mother didn't know! It was very difficult, but I truly believed she wouldn't understand my feelings at the time. I mean, I was a rebellious teen with overwhelming emotions no one would understand, least, thats what i thought, ahaha. i laugh at it now that I think back but anyways...let me return to the story

I secretly dated "him" for about a year and was caught by my mother later on. She was distraught and grounded me. she said i was grounded for "months on" but her anger always subsided eventually. the grounding only lasted maybe 2 weeks. eventually, my mom gave up and went along with me dating, as long as i followed her rules. if i was at his house, one of his parents HAD to be home, and i had a curfew, etc etc etc. and of course she did the usual rant of, dont you do "THIS" else you'll fail at life and not go to college...etc etc

Currently, I am still dating said boyfriend and I am very glad for it. Thankfully, my mother managed to deal with my thoughts and doesnt quarrel as much about me dating. Before, she always based dating on the culture in Vietnam as school was VERY VERY important in the country. She wanted me to take advantage of learning as she never had the chance as a kid, which I get. But she didnt understand the American culture of kids dating at very young ages.

Although the age of dating is decreasing, I do disagree with that. Elementary and middle school kids are dating and doing the "forbidden!" and its no big deal...? That I dont agree. But hey, who knows, maybe I'm not used to the present culture anymore. Its always changing everyday!

My other friends with asian parents have the same views my mother used to have. no dating until after college!!!! Thats the rule! right now, i know one of my friends is secretly dating w/o telling their parents, just as I have. i find it funny how we both ended up doing the same thing. maybe its the pressure of society and culture we're in that love seems to develop earlier in america unlike in the countries of our parents?

But yea, anyways, thats my story bout dating :]

i'm glad you got to stay with your boyfriend, i for one wasnt so lucky, yes my mom didnt directly stop us from dating, but her cold stares and remarks played a great deal with the end of our relationship. i'm 19 today and she still has a problem each time i go out even though i dont really do bad things, i'm just really unlucky with the law...

My mom gets extremely concerned when I mention a guy friend, but due to my absence of boyfriends, she has this perception that I'm gay.

I remember once when she asked me where I am going, and I told her to the movies, but not to worry 'cause I'm not going with any guys. She said "No guys? Don't come back gay!!!"

lol, I've heard the movies can do that to some people.

When I was a junior in high school, I was at my Taiwanese church celebrating my A-man and A-Kong's 50th wedding anniversary. My A-ma and another one of her church friends decided to play matchmaker and tried to set me up with this guy. All they said was that he was on the swimming team and got a 33 on the ACT just like I did. As soon as I sat down he told me "yeah, I have a girlfriend. My A-ma always tries to set me up".

My mother on the hand has known that I have dated some people that it has never been serious. My sophmore year in college I decided to introduce her to my first college boyfriend, who happens to be American born Chinese. She asked him about the Taiwan China issues. After she had meet him I asked her what she thought of him. She told me, "well he's kind of short and that's no good because your kids will be short too". I asked her oh is that it? She replies "Well you are getting better".

My parents were weird. My oldest sister dated and I think my parents decided they couldn't do anything about it. They didn't have much to say other than the usual "becareful about boys!" line, but when my other sister started dating in high school my mom threw a fit and since then, I was careful about telling them I was dating. They never knew about 1st boyfriend in grade 10, more like...my mom thought I was never going to date and when I did get serious with my 2nd right after highschool graduation all my mom said was "hahhaha that's such a funny joke!" She started cracking up. Then she realized I was for real. You should have seen her face she was all like "WHAT?! REALLY!?"
It was really weird, my dad knew and didn't say anything. But my mom kept saying "oh you guys are just friends blahblahblah..."

She never took my relationships serious. It sounds so sad, but my mom has no faith in me when it came to dating. Until...I started my serious relationship with my current girlfriend.

My parents have been telling me and my brother from the beginning that we're not allowed to date until we're done with college. Well, my brother's had girlfriends since late junior high and has a girlfriend now, in this third year of college. My parents know about and know his current girlfriend and are okay with it, given how they're responsible and don't let their relationship get in the way of their jobs and classes. I think they've let go of their strict dating rules in my brother's case, BUT NOT MINE. They still tell me not to date, and I don't feel comfortable talking about liking boys with them, only fawning occasionally fawning over celebrities.

I'm a college freshman and I've never had a boyfriend. I've gone on some botched dates and liked plenty of boys, but never had a boyfriend. Right now, I really understand the whole "date-after-college" thing because I can barely handle college and my friends, let alone a boyfriend. I'm choosing to be single right now, but probably not for my parents' reasons. Actually, I think I've developed a conservative dating view from being told over and over not to date until I'm done with school.

My parents are still really judgmental when it comes to younger people dating. They may not show it, but I see it in their raised eyebrows and barrage of questions about the couple. So now, if I have to mention my coupled-up friends, I tell them how those two work it out between themselves and school, so my parents know the kids are doing something right and that I'll do things right later.

Okay, I'm writing a novel here, but all during high school I felt torn between wanting to date like Americans do--anyone they like, dating casually, etc--and respecting my parents wishes. High school was a big pit of dating peer pressure--it seemed like everyone was dating or was coupled up, and I wanted that, too, to be in that crowd, happy and together, but it never happened. At college, it's less so, and I'm glad for that.

In the end, I agree with my parents' view on dating, because in junior high and high school, I couldn't go out to dinner with a guy anyway, because neither he nor I had a car, a job that'd pay for dinner out, or time. Time is the biggest thing with dating; you need time to get to know someone and like them and date, so I'm going to wait until after college, when I have all the time in the world to just work and focus on my love life. That's not an absolute, because you'll never know what's going to happen or who you're going to meet. I hope Asian parents know that, too.

hahahaha dun worry girl, ma bro when he waz 16 got a gf n she was japanese. as fo me, ma parents alwayz told me dat i couldnt hav a gf til i finished university (yes universty meaning after college i havta go ta skool again). life sux fo me ya kno n i get hella depressed seein other azn couplez at ma skool kiss cuz im like, "daang, dere mommaz let dem kiss but mine dont" but o well..which makez me wonder...do most azn parents let dey child date or do dey child actually hide dey gfs from dem? iono but yea goodluk..

My parents pushed a similar rule on me which was "no marriage bound relationships until you graduate college". I basically just gave up on dating after highschool because I was busy...but something was missing. Well, along the way I found out this rule was the BIGGEST LOAD OF HORSE MANURE IN MY LIFE. I say this because I lost a relationship with the one person I felt closest to and believe me, I've met quite a number of people and lived around the world and done lots of things most people never get a chance at and all those other things that qualify~ me to make all these kinds of brash statements. You need to be socially active during college because it develops you just as much as your degree work. The real world is going to be just as busy so you need to learn how to balance it all there in the safe petri-dish of college when you're still young enough for failures to not matter so much. Dating also adds the element of sexuality to the mix and not just in a superficial way: sex is the basis for human existance and it's healthy to have it a part of your psychological development which entails the engenderment of your fast-dwindling post-pubescent hormonal state which starts petering out at age 25 (ovarian viability decrescense begins, guys you've got a little longer, 30). This also draws in the issue of ---death---. Without actively fighting against it at all odds and getting more out of life that life takes out of you...you will begin to falter. Like I said, I lost the love of my life getting stuck in the rut of "waiting, waiting, waiting,..." and that put a major strain on both of us: she got 3 years of mind-twisting Zoloft exposure and I got the kind of stress that drew my hereditary weaknesses to manifest in my mid-20's rather than mid-30's/40's. You can doubt this causality (not from as little as I've told you) but believe me when I say you are wasting the most precious, healthy years of your life on HOMEWORK. That is INSANE. My older sibling pissed in the face of everything my parents stood for and is doing MINDBLOWINGLY AMAZING yet here I am with the same defeated, subjugated, "I'm conservative, too" attitude as you. Snap out of it...this isn't your parent's life....it's YOUR life. THIS IS IT.
I've studied Chinese Medicine and understand the dependent interplay of emotions, intellect, health, and epi/genetic investment and the value of taking it easy in a conservative lifestyle...but my god, go out and be human and test your sexual mettle!!! That's healthy too! Don't you want ot wake up thinking about someone you have butterflies for along with the long list of assignments and papers? Isn't that a fuller life? Once you start your first job you'll be puttin gin long hours and getting older and having less energy... it's not going to get easier to have a love life. Seriously. Late 20's is when most people start noticing the drain and having the first inklings of empathy for the aches and pains and slowness of the elderly... Working out every so often isn't going to cut it no more and every junk-calorie will count twofold in the effort it takes to burn it off.
I could go on but my point is that the seeming effortless glide of life oyu have in college isn't going to last all that much longer...and even if you're lucky enough to have good genes you shouldn't cut yourself off from enjoying all their is to enjoy in life for some arbitrary, heart-numbing delusional rule.
Your parent's only fear is that all their money will be "wasted" if you don't finish college on their terms... you, you're losing so much more by cutting the wires from your brain that connect to your heart. That's far more damaging than anything your parents are selfishly and myopicly worried about. And turn off the doramas...I hear you little girls in your dorms taking in your episodic guilty pleasure doses of "perfect love-life situation romantic tragedicomedies"! (jk) The urge is always there...and for GOOD REASON. Your body was made for it and denying it will only give you neuroses.

So...

Stir it up. For you.

AMEN!

Nice. I think I was always the "creepy guy" in High School. I could NEVER tell any of the girls that I liked that I was attracted to them. Instead, I would look at them in class and daydream, hoping that one day they would notice me staring and would eventually let me know that they felt the same way about me. Instead, looking back on it, I probably just freaked them the f*** out.

My first g/f was, of course, not a girl that I asked out, but one that asked me out...several times...before I finally understood that she liked me. I went out w/ her for a year before mutual differences separated us. Of course, I never told my parents, and 6 months after we went out, my mom asked me, "Joe? Are you dating Cindy now?" (names changed to protect the innocent) She had heard through the Asian mom grapevine from one of the other mothers. I told my mom that we had broken up, and she got angry at me and said, "What did you do to that nice girl? Why were you so mean!"